Darwin Finches-Galapagos Islands

.http://yfrog.com/j8img5124j









One more Darwin finch: medium ground finch.

This one is a hen. Notice the yellow beak, it gets dark during breeding season.

NIce pictures!

santa, thanks for the compliment on the pictures. Also, thanks on the info in regard to your avatar.
This picture is not so good, it does show the beak size and color. It is one of the Darwin finches.
It is interesting the number of readers that are looking at this post with no interaction. Perhaps the English language is the problem.
I would gladly answer the questions in Croatian and Italian.

Onda, Idemo!

Allora andiamo!

tony je napisao/la:Mile,
Galapagos Islands were never attached to the mainland of South America.
The Islands are 600 miles from the continent. The Islands were created by volcanic eruption
5 million years ago.
The Darwin finches have been isolated there on Galapagos Islands for 3 million years. How they got there we can speculate.
The Darwin finches are not Siskins. The siskins are in the genus "Carduelis".
The molecular work makes compelling case that Darwin's finches were originally "grassquits"
Their closest relatives are in the genus "Tiaris".
The shape of the beak is definitely an asset for survival.

In this post, I have the pictures of the "grassquits" in the genus of "Tiaris".
They are the ancestors of the Darwin Finches, and they still exist throughout South America.
The glossy blue black is the male and the brown is the female.

Tony, slike nisu izasle u "postu".

Ma, mene zanima jedna stvar: Kad promatramo stvaranje novih vrsta, da li je "mutacija" (bez nekih pravila) kao osnova prezivljavanja u novim sredinama dovela do izolacije i stvaranje novih vrsta, ili je "evolucija' (adaptracija i aklimatizacija na nove factore okoline) uvjetovala genetske promjene koje su dovele do novih vrsta?

Darwin je pokusao pokazati da akumulacijom malih promjena (gomilanjem quantitativnih promjena) dolazi do qualitativnog skoka. Nije sve bijelo i crno, ima tu dosta "sivog".

Miljenko je napisao/la:Tony, slike nisu izasle u "postu".

Ma, mene zanima jedna stvar: Kad promatramo stvaranje novih vrsta, da li je "mutacija" (bez nekih pravila) kao osnova prezivljavanja u novim sredinama dovela do izolacije i stvaranje novih vrsta, ili je "evolucija' (adaptracija i aklimatizacija na nove factore okoline) uvjetovala genetske promjene koje su dovele do novih vrsta?

Darwin je pokusao pokazati da akumulacijom malih promjena (gomilanjem quantitativnih promjena) dolazi do qualitativnog skoka. Nije sve bijelo i crno, ima tu dosta "sivog".

Mile, I'll e mail you the pictures. See if you can upload them on your next entry.

To discuss Evolution; Santa can probably answer you more intelligently than I can. On my level of understanding the Evolution is very simple. In my bird-room I can see Evolution of the birds that I am breeding. At times I get a brown canary from two parents that are green. To me that is Mutation which is part of Evolution.
My field of "expertise" is electricity and Electronics.
When I was a kid in Komiza I made a crystal Radio.
Wen I was in College I made a radio with vacuum tubes.
Then later in my life I made a radio with transistors.
To me the progress in science is Evolution. How else can you call it?
When Galileo made a telescope, he was able to prove the Copernicus theory of the Sun being in the center of our solar system. That to me is Evolution of knowledge and truth.
Darwin's theory of Evolution is a proven theory. Perhaps not perfect, but much of it is. Of course there are gray areas in his theory. Look at your hair and mine how gray is getting. Should we call it Mutation or Evolution.

Hi Tony,

I will try to load picture (btw, thanks for pictures).

I never questioned your “electronic expertise”, or breeding /birds knowledge. Yes, you evolved during all this years, but you are still TONY!

"Evolution", as we talk/write here on forum (and related to birds), is speciation process and new species separation from older race and each other. Formation of the new species, regardless how did happen???

Progress in human intelligence/knowledge can not be called evolution, unless, in time, we evolve into "super human" or whatever it should be called, NEW HUMAN????

In the case of the Darwin Finches in Galapagos, my main concern (as we discussed by phone) is sexual separation and speciation of the Darwin finches. Are they "sub-species" or individual "new species"? If there is EVOLUTION, Darwin Finches should be individual "new species", majority (if not all) of their hybrids (crosses) should be unfertile, and there is no possibility in the 'backwards" crossing to obtain Fx-hybrid that will be (by its characteristics and genetic make-up) closer to their ancestor ("grassquits") than to any current species from where hybrid originated.

So, can we say "progressive mutations and adaptations" or "evolution" for Darwin Finches?

PS: I did not read any book dealing with the Darwin Finches or any finches from Galapagos, so maybe I am talking over my head.! Or maybe not!!!!??? Anyway, no hard feeling (my dear MENTOR)!


PSS(I can only do like this):



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Yes, we can say; "Progressive mutations and adaptations" or"Evolution " for Darwin finches!!

Mile, If you don't mind, I like to disagree with you statement: "Progress in human intelligence/knowledge can't be called
evolution, unless in time we evolve in to super human or whatever it should be called New Human".

From the Webster Dictionary:
1.any process of formation or growth; development: the Evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane.
2. a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.
3. a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the Evolution of decades of research.

tony je napisao/la:Yes, we can say; "Progressive mutations and adaptations" or"Evolution " for Darwin finches!!

Mile, If you don't mind, I like to disagree with you statement: "Progress in human intelligence/knowledge can't be called
evolution, unless in time we evolve in to super human or whatever it should be called New Human".

From the Webster Dictionary:
1.any process of formation or growth; development: the Evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane.
2. a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.
3. a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the Evolution of decades of research.

Tony, I do not mind!

However, we are talking about evolution of the LIFE, formation of new species, in a planet EART! So, it is very specific what EVOLUTION means in this contest. I think that you will agree with me. I am not trying to be philosopher here. Just using “natural” logic.

Mile, I agree 100% and I am glad that wee are in total understanding what Evolution means in different areas.

Cut ce mo se na telefon, imom ti rec nisto ca mi ni drogo govorit di svak cuje.

tony je napisao/la:Mile, I agree 100% and I am glad that wee are in total understanding what Evolution means in different areas.

Cut ce mo se na telefon, imom ti rec nisto ca mi ni drogo govorit di svak cuje.

U uho som se pritvori!

Pozdrav Tony,
Daj uključise sa postovima na bivše YU područje kako bi me utešio.
Ja sam od one stare škole i volim da poštujem starije ljude od mene (malo šale).
Kako je tvoje zdravlje ? pretpostavljam da si dobar što ti iz sveg srca želim.
Pozdrav stari od Bocke

Pozdrav Mladicu,
Hvala ti mnogo na tvoj poziv, a isto tako na postovanje starijeg covjeka. Moje zdravlje je odlicno za moje godine. Gledam sto jedem i pijem, a i ne pusim vec 50 godina. Gojim kanarince i papigice. To me veseli i tjera me da radim nesto. Engleski mi je mnogo lakse pisati. Ja sam tu vec 60 godina.
Zelim i tebi sve najbolje.
Pozdrav
Tony
www.tonybucci.com